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Pope Joan: As Real As She Gets
Photo Credit: © Jules FriedCybergrrl's Lisa Gill: I was raised a Catholic for 18 years. And despite the thousands of masses I attended, the numerous Sunday schools I skipped and even after an excursion to Rome, I was completely unaware of the existence, or even the legend, of Pope Joan.
A fictional character in the eyes of the church, though recorded in hundreds of writings throughout time, Pope Joan's legendary ascent through the papacy is a most facinanting and engaging tale. Disguised as a man, Joan was free to study, teach and work in the ministry. Author Donna Woolfolk Cross breathes life into Joan and her story by taking us on a historic fictional journey of how Pope Joan's life may have been.
Donna's background extends into education, advertising and publishing, though she has just recently devoted her full attention to writing, as another book is already in the works. Cybergrrl was recently able to sneak some questions to Joan while she was in the middle of her book tour.
LG: What inspired you to write the book? How did you discover the existence of Joan?
Donna Woolfolk Cross: I learned about Joan quite by accident. I was reading a book in French and came across a reference to a Pope named "Jeanne." At first I thought this was simply an amusing typo--"Jeanne" (Joan) for "Jean" (John). But the reference piqued my curiosity, and the next day I went to the library and checked the Catholic encyclopedia. Sure enough, there was an entry on Joan, the woman who lived disguised as a man and rose to become Pope of the Church in the ninth century.
LG: What kind of research did you do and how long did it take?
Donna:I researched this book for over seven years. Indeed, it took so long, with friends and family constantly asking me "when will the book be done?" that I began to refer to it as my posthumous work!
The work was painstaking, as I had to track down sources in rare book rooms and special collections in this country and abroad. Such "primary document" research is very slow because the works are often not individually catalogued--just separated into broad subject categories. You have to be prepared for a lot of dead ends and fruitless wanderings before you hit on what you are looking for.
LG: You mention you located works that make note of Pope Joan--what kinds of things were written about her?
Donna:There are over 500 ancient chronicles that contain accounts of Joan's papacy--some of them by very well-known writers like Petrarch and Boccaccio. These records are very short, like all chronicles of the day. They give the bare bones of Joan's life, reign as pope, and death. This is why I chose to write a novel and not a historical study. I wanted to put flesh on those old bones, to tell Joan's story with all the rich color and life and human feeling with which she lived it.
The defining characteristic of really good historical fiction books (my favorite kind of leisure reading) is that, apart from their interesting historical information, they are rousing good tales! That's what I tried to do with Pope Joan,. Apparently New Line Cinema felt I succeeded. They purchased the movie rights. Shooting is scheduled to start in Europe next year.
LG: Can you briefly explain how Joan broke certain barriers for women in her time?
Donna:Life in the ninth century was very difficult for women. With few exceptions, women were treated as perpetual minors, with no legal or property rights. By law they could be beaten by their husbands--the only law on the books was one regulating the size of the club the husband could use! Rape was treated as a form of minor theft. In particular, the education of women was discouraged, as a learned woman was considered not only unnatural, but dangerous. One theory of the day held that the size of a woman's brain and uterus were inversely proportional: the more a woman learned, the less likely that she would bear children.
Joan broke through these barriers by rebelling against these restrictions, which her brilliant mind and renegade soul simply could not accept.
LG: What exactly is the Catholic Church official position on Pope Joan?
Donna:The church position is that Joan is nothing more than unsubstantiated legend, a late invention of Protestant reformers bent on humiliating the papacy. However, Joan's story first appears hundreds of years before Martin Luther was ever born and her story is told largely by Catholics.
LG: Could you explain how writing historical fiction can be difficult?
Donna:The greatest challenge is to strike a balance between interesting historical detail and page-turning narrative. After so many years of research, I knew a very great deal about ninth century life. Much of this detail is intensely interesting--we love to learn how other people eat and dress and think and talk--but too much of it weighs down the narrative. Writers of historical fiction walk a delicate tight-rope: you need enough detail to provide a real sense of time and place, but not so much you bring your narrative to a crashing halt.
LG: What kinds of things would you like women to take away from reading this book?
Donna:A sense of empowerment, of possibility, of potential. We need to understand one basic truth--that to empower yourself in this world you must learn. This is what Joan did--she armed herself with the power of knowledge and became the most influential woman of her day--or arguably, of any day.
Even today, in countries such as Afghanistan and Algeria, women are forbidden to learn. This is how societies always control those whom they wish to keep subservient--by taking away the right to education. This is why Joan's story is still so important today. She represents the empowerment of women, the realization of their full potential though the exercise of all of their talents--especially their minds.
by Lisa Gill,
Cybergrrl Webstation Editor
